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  • http://whywebpr.com/burda Steven Burda

    Neal -

    Thanks, yet again, for a great blog post.

    I think the poor employee handed over his/her profile in FEAR, not because he/she really wanted to or were OBLIGATED to do so by law/policy. He/she in fact, were in VIOLATION of Linkedin’s TOS/Agreement by doing so.

    Perhaps a threat of withholding the pay, direct or indirect, was geared towards the employee before leaving the company and the password and login info was handed over without giving any further thought.

    Sad… but that’s why we, as social media users, have to educate others what they CAN and CANNOT do on Linkedin and within realm of similar platforms.

    Good luck -

    - Steven Burda
    http://whywebpr.com/burda

  • http://whywebpr.com/burda Steven Burda

    Neal -

    Thanks, yet again, for a great blog post.

    I think the poor employee handed over his/her profile in FEAR, not because he/she really wanted to or were OBLIGATED to do so by law/policy. He/she in fact, were in VIOLATION of Linkedin’s TOS/Agreement by doing so.

    Perhaps a threat of withholding the pay, direct or indirect, was geared towards the employee before leaving the company and the password and login info was handed over without giving any further thought.

    Sad… but that’s why we, as social media users, have to educate others what they CAN and CANNOT do on Linkedin and within realm of similar platforms.

    Good luck -

    - Steven Burda
    http://whywebpr.com/burda

  • Neal Schaffer

    Hey Steven,

    Your comment hit the issue right on the head…it is fear and the lack of knowing otherwise. Hopefully, through your help, we can alert people to this in the future, to give them hope and ammunition so that they do not fall into the same traps. Until then, a lot more blogging to do!

    - Neal

  • Neal Schaffer

    Hey Steven,

    Your comment hit the issue right on the head…it is fear and the lack of knowing otherwise. Hopefully, through your help, we can alert people to this in the future, to give them hope and ammunition so that they do not fall into the same traps. Until then, a lot more blogging to do!

    - Neal

  • wfeigenson

    Neal, this is just my opinion – not backed up by any research.

    I don’t think the hiring company can own the identity – that is the person’s. Their IP is what’s *inside* the identity – the contacts.

    Since most people in this circumstance would have mixed personal and private contacts, I would just export your contacts to a CSV file, and edit out the company contacts in Excel. Then hand over the account to the employer with the understanding that they have to rename the account.

    On this last point, I think LinkedIn would side with the individual. But ITMT, hand everything over to the company and get your severance pay. Then contact LI and tell them you want your identity back and that the company should be forced to rename the account.

    That gives everyone what they want, and since LI could easily close the account for non-compliance with TOS after you hand it over to the ex-employer, the company would really have no option but to rename the account.

    When the individual gets their account back, they would use the Excel file with exported contacts to re-invite people – preferably with a note in the invitation about what happened.

    -walt

  • wfeigenson

    Neal, this is just my opinion – not backed up by any research.

    I don’t think the hiring company can own the identity – that is the person’s. Their IP is what’s *inside* the identity – the contacts.

    Since most people in this circumstance would have mixed personal and private contacts, I would just export your contacts to a CSV file, and edit out the company contacts in Excel. Then hand over the account to the employer with the understanding that they have to rename the account.

    On this last point, I think LinkedIn would side with the individual. But ITMT, hand everything over to the company and get your severance pay. Then contact LI and tell them you want your identity back and that the company should be forced to rename the account.

    That gives everyone what they want, and since LI could easily close the account for non-compliance with TOS after you hand it over to the ex-employer, the company would really have no option but to rename the account.

    When the individual gets their account back, they would use the Excel file with exported contacts to re-invite people – preferably with a note in the invitation about what happened.

    -walt

  • http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/09/linkedin_hays_ions/ Tori Long

    There was a legal case on this topic last year. An ex-employee of recruitment firm Hays was ordered to disclose details of his profile.

    Read more at http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/09/linkedin_hays_ions/

  • http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/09/linkedin_hays_ions/ Tori Long

    There was a legal case on this topic last year. An ex-employee of recruitment firm Hays was ordered to disclose details of his profile.

    Read more at http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/09/linkedin_hays_ions/

  • http://www.adadfirst.com/ Scott, A Dad First

    Your post is spot on, though there is one simply workaround that I’ve used for years (and through 2 different employers): simply use a personal account as your login.

  • http://www.adadfirst.com Scott, A Dad First

    Your post is spot on, though there is one simply workaround that I’ve used for years (and through 2 different employers): simply use a personal account as your login.

  • http://www.barbarafrench.net/ BarbaraFrench

    Interesting discussion. I’ve worked in marketing for a long time, and recall similar debates over email — company rights to the correspondence and address books on a company-owned PC used by an employee.

    The situation here — a paid subscription, and not a cheap one at that — would not have happened if LI allowed transfer of premium membership subscriptions to other employees within a company. That takes care of the subscription.

    I disagree with handing over connection lists or treating them like a DM/CRM db. People connect with people, not companies. LI connections are based on personal choices and selections.

    I would expect my contacts to *ask* me if it’s OK to turn my connection over to someone else in the company. The best way to do this is to use LI best practices: introduce me to the person you want to turn me over to.

  • http://www.barbarafrench.net BarbaraFrench

    Interesting discussion. I’ve worked in marketing for a long time, and recall similar debates over email — company rights to the correspondence and address books on a company-owned PC used by an employee.

    The situation here — a paid subscription, and not a cheap one at that — would not have happened if LI allowed transfer of premium membership subscriptions to other employees within a company. That takes care of the subscription.

    I disagree with handing over connection lists or treating them like a DM/CRM db. People connect with people, not companies. LI connections are based on personal choices and selections.

    I would expect my contacts to *ask* me if it’s OK to turn my connection over to someone else in the company. The best way to do this is to use LI best practices: introduce me to the person you want to turn me over to.

  • Neal Schaffer

    Thanks for adding to the discussion Barbara. You bring up an interesting point from the reverse perspective…that is, I connect with you, and then the company takes over your account, so where does that leave me? Indeed, people ARE connecting with people, so what does this say about the value of connections? I do think that somewhere down the road, considering how much business is doing with corporate HR divisions as well as recruiters, that they need to come out with some sort of policy to make it crystal clear as to who owns what. It would be a shame if they didn’t…

  • Neal Schaffer

    Thanks for adding to the discussion Barbara. You bring up an interesting point from the reverse perspective…that is, I connect with you, and then the company takes over your account, so where does that leave me? Indeed, people ARE connecting with people, so what does this say about the value of connections? I do think that somewhere down the road, considering how much business is doing with corporate HR divisions as well as recruiters, that they need to come out with some sort of policy to make it crystal clear as to who owns what. It would be a shame if they didn’t…

  • http://whywebpr.com/burda Steven Burda

    Barbara et al -

    E-mail and company rights to the correspondence and address books on a company-owned PC is one thing… but social networking sites and its connections (networking associates) are another! What is I work for a company X now, and before, I worked for a company A, B, C and did contract work for company D, E, and F and sit on Board of Directors of company G, H and I… and connected to people, over the years, through my Linkedin at all of them (A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I and even X !!) — who to say that I owe company X my contacts? … and how will they KNOW or PROVE which trusted connections are related to X, and only X? THEY have no claim or rights to anyone else – both legal and ethically.

    Furthermore, what if I go on vacation or social/networking events in my town and meet great people…. who are not part of, or related to company A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I and/or X. I add them, or they invite me, to their (via my) Linkedin profile. I accept, or they accept. Are they also part of company X’s digital asset, or “intellectual property”? NO!!

    I can go on and on with examples… but I’ll stop :)

    - Steven Burda
    http://www.linkedin.com/in/burda

    Posted, Saturday, 06-06-09

  • http://whywebpr.com/burda Steven Burda

    Barbara et al -

    E-mail and company rights to the correspondence and address books on a company-owned PC is one thing… but social networking sites and its connections (networking associates) are another! What is I work for a company X now, and before, I worked for a company A, B, C and did contract work for company D, E, and F and sit on Board of Directors of company G, H and I… and connected to people, over the years, through my Linkedin at all of them (A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I and even X !!) — who to say that I owe company X my contacts? … and how will they KNOW or PROVE which trusted connections are related to X, and only X? THEY have no claim or rights to anyone else – both legal and ethically.

    Furthermore, what if I go on vacation or social/networking events in my town and meet great people…. who are not part of, or related to company A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I and/or X. I add them, or they invite me, to their (via my) Linkedin profile. I accept, or they accept. Are they also part of company X’s digital asset, or “intellectual property”? NO!!

    I can go on and on with examples… but I’ll stop :)

    - Steven Burda
    http://www.linkedin.com/in/burda

    Posted, Saturday, 06-06-09

  • http://whywebpr.com/burda Steven Burda

    P.S. …and what about our many friends, family, neighbors, classmates… many who are also on Linkedin and in our network, and have nothing to do with company A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I and/or X… you get the point on where I am going, right?

    …’nuff said.

    - Steven Burda

  • http://whywebpr.com/burda Steven Burda

    P.S. …and what about our many friends, family, neighbors, classmates… many who are also on Linkedin and in our network, and have nothing to do with company A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I and/or X… you get the point on where I am going, right?

    …’nuff said.

    - Steven Burda

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  • http://thehumanracehorses.com Michael VanDervort

    Hey NEal, Thanks for pointing folks to the blog post. I appreciate the comments. Your new post is great in that it provides additional insights. I’ll have to ponder those before I comment further.

    It is truly a small world. Lonnie Gulden and I met via LinkedIn working on a project for my wife that never really came together.

    And Steven Burda and LinkedIn are going to a be a blog post topic on Human Race Horses some time later this week!

  • http://humanracehorses.blogspot.com Michael VanDervort

    Hey NEal, Thanks for pointing folks to the blog post. I appreciate the comments. Your new post is great in that it provides additional insights. I’ll have to ponder those before I comment further.

    It is truly a small world. Lonnie Gulden and I met via LinkedIn working on a project for my wife that never really came together.

    And Steven Burda and LinkedIn are going to a be a blog post topic on Human Race Horses some time later this week!

  • Neal Schaffer

    Hey Steven,

    Thanks for all of your input. And I agree with you 100%. The funny thing is, if you think about it, what about the rights of the people who connected with that employer? In other words, I connected with a friend, but now his employer owns the connection. I did not want to connect with the employer. It’s almost a violation of my rights. This really could become messy if this trend continues…

    - Neal

  • Neal Schaffer

    Hey Steven,

    Thanks for all of your input. And I agree with you 100%. The funny thing is, if you think about it, what about the rights of the people who connected with that employer? In other words, I connected with a friend, but now his employer owns the connection. I did not want to connect with the employer. It’s almost a violation of my rights. This really could become messy if this trend continues…

    - Neal

  • Neal Schaffer

    Hey Michael, Wow! It is a small world indeed! Now we are all part of the LinkedIn Clique ;-) I really do appreciate your blog post and additional insight, and I look forward to your new post featuring Steven Burda later this week!

  • Neal Schaffer

    Hey Michael, Wow! It is a small world indeed! Now we are all part of the LinkedIn Clique ;-) I really do appreciate your blog post and additional insight, and I look forward to your new post featuring Steven Burda later this week!

  • Neal Schaffer

    Hey Walt,

    I agree 100% with your approach. It would be interesting to contact LinkedIn after the fact and see if they would side with you or not. But, regardless, if these are your contacts, it is easy to export their information into a .csv spreadsheet and re-invite them to a new profile explaining the situation.

    - Neal

  • Neal Schaffer

    Hey Walt,

    I agree 100% with your approach. It would be interesting to contact LinkedIn after the fact and see if they would side with you or not. But, regardless, if these are your contacts, it is easy to export their information into a .csv spreadsheet and re-invite them to a new profile explaining the situation.

    - Neal

  • Neal Schaffer

    Your reply is spot on as well, Scott. We all need to be careful to separate our private profiles from our employer’s.

  • Neal Schaffer

    Your reply is spot on as well, Scott. We all need to be careful to separate our private profiles from our employer’s.

  • Neal Schaffer

    Tori, thank you so much for this. Wow! I am shocked by the outcome of this! Of course I can understand the need to disclose account information, but his actions are only a natural one that I am sure everyone in the industry is following. I also wonder, since this case was in the U.K., if it would be handled differently here in the U.S. Anyone know of any American precedents?

  • Neal Schaffer

    Tori, thank you so much for this. Wow! I am shocked by the outcome of this! Of course I can understand the need to disclose account information, but his actions are only a natural one that I am sure everyone in the industry is following. I also wonder, since this case was in the U.K., if it would be handled differently here in the U.S. Anyone know of any American precedents?

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  • Norma Mayer

    Neal,

    It was great to find this blog post as I was recently victimized by my previous employer and at a loss. They hacked into my Linkedin account and changed my email and password, thereby rendering it theirs. I have now lost my image, my 260 contacts, and a possible leg up on my job search.

    Have you come across any words of advice for those in my situation since this post?

  • http://windmillnetworking.com/ nealschaffer

    Norma,

    Thanks for your comment. In your case, I would immediately contact a lawyer (or the ACLU if you don't have one) to see what your legal rights are. I am not a lawyer and that is why you should contact a professional.

    Do let us know the outcome and if there is anything that you can share from your experience.

  • http://windmillnetworking.com/ nealschaffer

    Norma,

    Thanks for your comment. In your case, I would immediately contact a lawyer (or the ACLU if you don't have one) to see what your legal rights are. I am not a lawyer and that is why you should contact a professional.

    Do let us know the outcome and if there is anything that you can share from your experience.

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